Lund University International Podcast

Elliott Gunnell (EG): Hi, you're listening to the Lund University International Podcast. I'm Elliott. I'm a student here at Lund University, and I also work in the International Marketing and Recruitment Office here at Lund University. And I'm happy to be hosting this particular episode with my guest, Jacques. Jacques, would you like to introduce yourself?

Jacques Schultze (JS): Hello there. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. My name is Jacques Schultze, I'm an old student of Lund, actually. I was one of these like eternity-students. And basically today I make my living by doing guided tours where I like to talk about the slightly more ghostly and bloodcurdling hitory of Lund, because there are a lot of really good old stories from this town.

EG: Interesting. I can't wait to dive into some of those today. So, you know, Lund University was founded in 1666, and we have a long history at the University of being in a historic town. But what are some of the most interesting stories that you know about Lund that you could you could tell us today?

JS: Well, I mean, in connection with the University, because, I mean, we can go back because the town is like a thousand years old. So we have, like, medieval history, for instance, we had like, the archbishop of all the Nordic countries had his seat in Lund from 1103, 1104, and in 1254 we get the new Archbishop called Jakob Erlandsen, who in 1272 was - sorry, 1274 - we know that he was murdered by one of the Danish kings.

EG: Woah!

JS: Yeah. And we didn't get to know this until 1972 when they found his tomb here in Lund. And when they opened up his little coffin... he came in a very small coffin because he died in Germany. So in order to get him home, they actually cut him into small pieces and boiled him until the meat fell off the bones, and sent the bones because it was easier to transport, and he wouldn't smell so much when he arrived!

JS: But when they when they opened up his grave, they found out that somebody had actually shot a crossbow bolt straight through his head.

EG: Wow!

JS: Yeah. And it turned out that if you look at the political machinations at the time, it was with all certainty a Danish king called Erik Klipping who had him murdered just to get rid of him.

EG: Wow.

JS: Yeah. And here in Lund, actually, if you visit the museum of Kulturen, you take a little passageway that goes underneath the street. When you come up on the other side, the first red brick building on your left: go round it into the basement; there you have the brick tomb. His oak coffin, and a plaster cast of his skull. So you can look at the entrance and exit wounds and stuff like that.

JS: So yeah, we start out fairly early by doing strange stuff here. Yeah.

EG: Yeah. Wow. Wow. And, you know, I mean, how does it go from there? So are there more interesting stories that build from that?

JS: Oh, yeah. I mean, especially, as I said, after the University is founded in 1666. That's the thing. Because sometimes you see people talking, "yeah, 1666, some say 1668". They signed the paperwork in 1666, but they didn't admit students until 1668. So kind of like a three year anniversary! But, I mean, if you look at it when the University opened, it was an extremely small university.

JS: I mean, it was like, I think it was like 15 professors, one teacher of modern languages and a fencing master. Because as a student, you had to learn how to fence and dance. So that's what he taught as well. And the thing is that, as I said, about 15 professors and something like 30, 35 students.

EG: 30 to 35 students?

JS: That's almost like private tutoring at the university level.

EG: Yeah!

JS: Yeah, that's that's really cool. But the University, when it opened, was literally a state within the state, because the University had what was known as a jurisdiction over the students. Which meant that - oh, and the academics. So, like, ordinary authorities were not allowed to handle crimes committed by the faculty or the students.

EG: Wow.

JS: Yep. So they had their own police force, their own set of laws, their own court system, and their own jail. It's that little house called Liberiet down by the cathedral. And as an example of the last time the University actually executed a student was in 1830.

EG: 1830?

JS: Yep.

EG: Wow. Now, for all the listeners who are listening, we don't execute students nowadays! But tell us more, tell us more about the jurisdiction within the jurisdiction. I think that's quite interesting.

JS: Yeah. Because this kind of connects to like a larger thing that's kind of cool in a grisly way. Because what happened on September 8th, 1829, behind the big - well, you have the Academic Union, you knew the castle, that little roundabout behind it. You have a brick house with wooden cross beams, called Locus Peccatorum. About 100 meters from that house on September 8th, 1829, they found the corpse of a young man who had been, like, battered to death.

EG: Wow.

JS: And it turned out, they came to after a while discover because he was so thoroughly beaten - it was almost unrecognizable - but after a while, they discovered it was a former student called Anders Landén. Well, now former students. And who had killed him? Well, not very difficult: just follow the splashes of blood along the street until they came to that house. And the trail led right up to one of the doors where an old friend of his, another student, called Jacob Blomdahl lived. And when they knocked on his door, he opened it, and he was, like, covered in blood and had bloodshot, staring eyes and stuff like that.

JS: So, yep, they arrested him immediately, and he confessed immediately. And him and his friend were going to have, like, a lads' night up there, they were going to play some cards, drink some beer. The thing was that the mood turned after a while: about the card game and who owed who what here. And so finally this argument ended with a fight, and the fight ended with Blomdahl grabbing an iron bar and then, like, just beat his friend to death, carried his corpse as far as he could manage, dumped him and went home.

EG: Wow.

JS: Yeah. And now the problem was that both victim and murderer were students, so the jurisdiction had to move in. And we know that the professors weren't really that keen on that because, you know, "I have to teach and do research, not sentence people for murder!" So they tried to weasel out of it, but they couldn't. And they actually had to pronounce, or come up with the sentence that Blomdahl has to give life for life. And in the spring of 1830, he was beheaded on the orders of the University at the old execution grounds here in Lund.

EG: Wow.

JS: Yep. And the old execution grounds, for the students among you... up on Geting road. Right across from the stables where the technology students have their party house, Lophtet. That's the execution grounds.

EG: Interesting.

JS: So that's why they lopped his head off. And yeah, this jurisdiction was in effect until 1852, 53. And that house, Locus Peccatorum, is named that after this story. Because that means "the house of sin". And it used to have students who lived there, and the guy who lived on the topmost floor was known as the "summus peccator", the "highest sinner". And in connection with this murder, that is why you get the Academic Union. Because the professors and students were like, "how did this happen?"

EG: Yeah.

JS: "How is it not going to happen again? So let's get, like, start a union so we can keep tabs on the students so they don't just sit at home and drink and get strange and, you know, stuff like that. So that's why you get Academic Union.

EG: Wow. That's such an interesting... and the Academic Union came about in...

JS: 1830, 31, right about then.

EG: Okay. Wow. Wow. Well, the more you know! I think it's interesting as a student, because at Lund, I came to Lund and I just saw the, kind of, the interesting advertisements for Akademiska Föreningen and then... and all these different, you know, organisations in Lund but you never really know the historyö the background of why these things exist and why Lund is unique, in its way, to have some of these things.

EG: You know, it's interesting that you give ghost talks and I'm sure you tell these stories, among others in your talks. But but tell me more about that process. How did you get involved in giving ghost talks?

JS: Well, basically, it was like, I was studying at Lund and had a couple of these, like, you know, like really boring summer jobs. I just sit and watch the clock and the, like, the minute hand takes one step forward, two steps back. And I was a bit like that "I don't mind working, but I want to have fun when I work!"

JS: And so and I'd been a lot to London and in London have, like, ghost pub walks, Jack the Ripper tours, haunted London, medieval London. Those kinds of tours are very popular. And I was like, I don't know, I always loved history and I love talking about history. And I am kind of a motor mouth, so, uh, this would kind of suit me. So I made up a couple of concepts, and I sold that to the tourist offices here in Lund.

JS: And so it started out like a summer job. It was something I'd do, uh, did next to my studies. And when I finally... I do actually have a law degree and a lot of, like, also done a lot of history at the university level, and it's come in handy. But when I finally got my law degree, I discovered I can actually make a comfortable living doing this. And I love doing this. So why not? Life is too short not to have fun. Yeah.

EG: Yeah! And so are you a resident of Lund? You live...

JS: Yeah.

EG: You live within the city walls and experience it every day?

JS: Yeah, exactly.

EG: So that's really interesting. You know, can students go on these tours that you give, or are they just kind of for... like, where can we access your your tours?

JS: You can find my... I have a little Facebook page, Spökguiden, so 'S', 'P', 'Ö' - the 'O' with the umlauts - 'K', 'G', 'U' 'I' 'D', 'E', 'N'. You can find me there because during the summer I have, like, scheduled tours where you just show up. But the international students, I recommended that... because I do these tours in English as well... I would recommend to get some friends together contact me and I work any day, any time as long as I'm not, you know, caught up somewhere else, so I can always arrange for private tour.

EG: Interesting. That's another... That's an amazing opportunity. Yeah. I might take you up on that offer, actually. That's quite fun. And of course, with all of these ghost stories and tours in mind, you know, something that comes to mind as an American student is Halloween.

JS: Oh yeah.

EG: And that's quite interesting at Lund. What's your experience with Halloween, being a ghost guide, I guess?

JS: Yeah I get a lot of jobs around Halloween because people want to go out and get haunted stories. It's kind of like an interesting cultural drift, because we have like All Hallows Eve in Sweden, but then it's a very solemn occasion, somber, you go to the graveyards to visit your relatives graves and you put a candle on it and, you know, remember them.

JS: But I'd say like last 15, 20 years there's been this cultural shift where, like the American tradition is coming in. So now, like Swedish television and TV channels, they start showing, yeah, the horror movies and stuff like that. And they have like Halloween parties. And the thing about trick or treating is it's actually getting to be a thing now.

JS: And a tip is like, we've got this. Like, I don't know how it came to be, but the idea was that if you put a pumpkin outside your house or apartment, that means it's okay to knock for trick or treating. Yep. But it's been kind of an interesting drift there, but it's getting to be a thing now, the American Halloween style.

EG: It's interesting, too, as an American, as an American international student here in Lund, I obviously have my own experience with Halloween. But it's funny because we do some traditions, for example, carving pumpkins. I'm not sure if they do that here in Sweden?

JS: Oh yeah, once again, it's one of these things that's starting to show up now.

EG: Yeah, yeah.

JS: People carve pumpkins, and put them outside. But here's a little interesting thing here in Scania. We used to have an old tradition, and it's still alive. Some people do it around Halloween. They carve, basically carving pumpkin heads, but not with pumpkin, but with sugar beets.

EG: Really?

JS: Yep. Because sugar beets have always been one of the big cash crops down here. And that was a tradition around this time that you would carve, like, these ghastly faces in a little sugar beet with a candle in them. And actually, they smell very nice because you get this smell of burnt sugar when you use stuff like that. So that was kind of like a Swedish proto-pumpkin version or Scanian-proto-pumpkin version.

EG: Mm hmm. Now, how big is a sugar beet? I mean, is it...?

JS: I'd say the size of, uh, well, it's teardrop shaped. It's shaped like a teardrop. And I'd say about the size of...

EG: A small pumpkin?

JS: A small, small pumpkin. Like one of these, like, you know, decorative pumpkins.

EG: Sure. Oh, wow. Interesting. Now, of course...

JS: I know that they do it at the museum of Kulturen.

EG: Do they really?

JS: Yeah. They have a sugar beet carving for kids around this time.

EG: How fun. Yeah. Now, of course, we have a lot of international students who are listening to this. Have there been any stories in Lund about international folks that have caused trouble or have maybe turned into ghosts or, you know, famous international ghosts here in Lund? That you know of?

JS: Let's see. I mean, uh, I'm trying to do a quick think here. Uh, no, sadly I don't think we have, like, any international... the ones we have are homegrown! But since this is a university town, it's actually often enough... it's either students or professors.

EG: Ah, okay.

JS: Yeah, especially professors. They have a tendency of haunting because once they get tenure, you never get rid of them! Yeah. So they hang around forever. They never leave their old offices.

EG: Haha, yeah.

JS: But I mean, we've had, like, international guests, like fencing masters from abroad and stuff like that. Yeah. So, and also especially during the 1600s, if you look at it, because Sweden was one of the great powers then, and as you might know, what today is southern Sweden was eastern Denmark up until 1658, and then basically the 1600s was spent fighting huge wars between Sweden and Denmark because Denmark wanted their old eastern provinces back. And then you had, like the Battle of Lund in 1676, which is actually the bloodiest battle in the history of Scandinavia. 9000 dead in a single day.

JS: And this battle ended with the Swedish king, after they called it a day, he actually rode into the king's house here in Lund. And they spent the night there with his generals and the few members of his bodyguards that actually survived the battle.

EG: Wow.

JS: And like the connection, because at the time, the bishop was still a Dane. Yeah. He had managed to keep his job from 1658. Yeah. And the story is that he and his wife really hated the Swedes, which is kind of, he was kind of like a two-faced guy, because he hated the Swedes, but he was actually the guy that wanted a university here. But they say that he and his wife had, like, laid out this feast to eat with the Danish king to celebrate the victory over the foul Swedes.

JS: And they could hear like horses and stuff and were like, "Hey, here comes Christian V! Oh, crap, it's Charles XI." So the story is that after that, the bishop's wife ran into the dinner hall, got the good red wine, put that in a basement and got some like, sour, vinegary stuff for the Swedes. And I don't know if that made Charles XI annoyed, but in 1688, he gives the King's house to the University, and that is the University's first proper building. That's their house. And that is actually, the King's House is the main university building until 1882 when we get the Great White House.

EG: Wow. So that's fascinating. That is really, I mean, for all the international students listening, these are buildings in Lund's main campus, in the center of Lund. Everybody has walked past them many times. But we probably don't know the story behind these particular houses. I'm interested to know more about the professors stories, about the professors who have made trouble, or just who are quirky, I guess?

JS: I mean, when it comes to like quirky professors, I mean, we have people who are... it's almost, yeah, quirky, borderline insane!

EG: Right. Yeah. That's usually how it goes!

JS: Yeah! For instance, one of my favorites comes to Lund in the early 1800s. He was... his name was Carl Johan Hill. And if you look at it to begin with, I mean, because his name was Danielsson to begin with, but he came from a small place called Högruda, which is to the north of Scania.

JS: And when he started at the University, he said, "oh, Carl Johan Danielsson, that's a bother to write." So he took the first syllable of his hometown, Hög, and translated into English: "Hill". And that's when you got the family name. At the University, he studied maths and physics and was like... but it seems like every time he was up for tenure, the University was like, "You know what, can we get rid of him somehow?" So he like, toured the seats of higher learning... because first they sent him to Gothenburg for a while and then Gothenburg, they sent him to Stockholm for a while. Then he came back to Scania, and tried to get his foot in the door through the University. But it took some time.

JS: So for a while he worked as the regimental physician at a cavalry regiment outside of town without having studied medicine!

EG: Oh, wow.

JS: And, I mean, I would have been a little nervous if I had the regimental physician who was, like, a mathematician and physician.

EG: Yeah.

JS: But finally, it seems like University kind of forgot who they're dealing with. So they actually made him the first mathematics... pure mathematics professor here at the University. And once he got tenure, and you couldn't get rid of him, that's what he, like, let all his ideas fly.

EG: Oh, yeah.

JS: Because he started off like, he went up to the Institute of the Swedish Language and said, "you know, why do we have all the vowels in the written language? Let's remove them and make the written language just pure consonants! The words would become shorter, the books thinner, and we will save time and money." Well, nobody liked that idea. Then he went up to the Institute of Physics and made a, well, not a fool of himself, because people were a little bit afraid of him. Because the physicists were using the old measurements, like inch, foot, yard. Yeah. And like pressure was measured in the very practical unit of square... like pounds per square inch and stuff like that, a lot of conversion tables if you were doing physics.

JS: So they were looking for a new standard unit, and... "that meter thing they're using in France, oh, god, that's practical. Base ten." And then the professor showed up. Professor Hill said, "the meter? That effeminate French unit? That's not something for us proud northerners. No, we will have our own standard of units. And that will be the mustard seed!"

EG: Wow, what?

JS: Because the mustard seed is mentioned in the Bible, and all mustard seeds are the same size.

EG: Oh my gosh.

JS: At least the naked eye. And he didn't understand, they didn't like that idea and he couldn't get why. And then he finally made his own colleagues weep in, like, misery. Because he arranged for a huge, heavy mathematics and physics conference here in Lund.

JS: And now we're talking about, like, real guys, like Gauss from Germany and Abel from Norway and stuff like that. And when it was Professor Hill's turn, and to his colleagues' utter horror, he stands up and starts talking about the absolute necessity of the fifth way of doing maths. We had add, subtract, multiply, divide; it wasn't enough. We needed an extra one. He wanted to call it "magis" and magis means 'more', but where as adding is about quantity, magis was about quality.

EG: Woah.

JS: It was a way to calculate the inner beauty of figures and stuff, and equations and stuff like that. And the others go, "what's he talking about? Six plus eight equals, like, a rose? What is this?"

EG: Yeah.

JS: Yeah. So after a while, they used him as a warning example of what happens when you mix different sciences with one another. But the students loved him.

EG: The students loved him?

JS: The students loved him because as you can imagine, his lectures were great fun.

EG: Oh, yeah.

JS: Yeah. It was very fun to listen to him. And you could also poke fun at him, at his lectures, and he wouldn't get angry. But they were terrified of doing their exams for him.

EG: Oh I bet.

JS: Yeah, because in those days you still had the idea that, when you were going to do your exam, you dressed up in evening dress, a good little book, and then you went down and you booked a time with your professor, and you sat with him for a couple of hours and he quizzed you.

EG: Wow.

JS: And then wrote down your grade in a book like, "Oh, okay, he passed," and stuff like that, or just told you, "come back in a month or two, you have to do this, study this a little bit more."

EG: Wow.

JS: Usually a very civilised thing, they would bring out schnaps and cigars and stuff like that. But they said that they had one poor student who was going to do, like, an exam for this professor. And he sat there and did maths for 112 hours straight without sleep.

EG: What? 112, oh man.

JS: Yeah. And then he got a homemade grade that said something like "slightly less than completely acceptable", whatever that might mean.

EG: What? Oh, my god.

JS: Yeah. So yeah, he was very like, "is this quirky or is this, like, certifiable?" It was... he was like, right on the border there.

EG: Man. Yeah, well, it was so nice to have you on today to talk about these...

JS: Thank you so much, very nice to be here.

EG: These stories about Lund and and the long history of the University. It's so fun to always listen to this. Thanks for listening, so much, to this episode of the Lund University International Podcast. We were so grateful to have you on, Jacques, today to talk about...

JS: Great fun being here!

EG: ...to talk about the ghost stories.

EG: If you're interested in learning more about Lund University, you can go to our website. lunduniversity.ac.uk. You can also follow us on social media, on Facebook and on Instagram. And we look forward to having you listen to our next podcast soon. Thanks so much. Bye.